hailceaser
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Classics almost here...........Its a great game !
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Post by hailceaser on Mar 21, 2021 16:07:42 GMT
Massive difference between English and Irish trained winners at Cheltenham my thoughts are quite simple I think Irish horses run and train on anything and consequently win big prizes in mud but will thrive on better ground too Anyone else got any theories
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Post by Pulse on Mar 21, 2021 22:12:37 GMT
Embarrassing week for all concerned . Irish Point to Points the main reason for me . Early days makes the horses , More competitive & in all honesty better trainers , would WP be champion trainer in GB if he kept up the assault on top races all year round , pretty easily imo. Owners will easily pay £200,000+ - £400,000+ for the top quality purchases from IRE & of course France ...never England , Scotland or Wales , For some reason their horses hcp marks looked 1 stone high during Cheltenham compared to Ireland & of course good old Red Mills feeds 😂
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hailceaser
New Member
Classics almost here...........Its a great game !
Posts: 15
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Post by hailceaser on Mar 22, 2021 4:32:53 GMT
I get your ptp theory but hasnt it always bn the case that ptp are rife in Ireland and France anyway and better horses bn tained in Ireland by big owners and not sent to uk but is that adding to the problem...it seems you get better results if your horse is trained in Ireland so wel train him there....without understanding the reasons why Irish horses fair better the problem should increase as more owners look at Cheltenham results..but even outside of top class hurdle races and chases Uk were poor in poor handicap races again all cleaned up by Ireland KBlake is correct when he said Ireland has top class horses and top class industry but the dire results for uk after rhe festival need looking at if these were the olympics nillions would be ploughed into making uk the best.....I hope some good comes out of this and the bha look deeply into the demise of british horse racing I mean I cant tell you off the top of my head who is top uk jumps trainer Im guessing Nicholls.......I struggle to think of other top class trainers......Yet mention Ireland you think Mullins Bromhead..Its not a great advert for British racing and you know if a Mullins horse comes to uk even without a run hes gonna be there or abouts...What English trainer can do that...and there has to be a reason for this which bha beed to find out.
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Post by Pulse on Mar 22, 2021 12:49:36 GMT
I don’t think there’s any hidden reasons . We knew going in the Irish were long odds on winning , Trainer & jockey , it’s been getting this way for a long while .
When I started backing horses my memory of the UK was Martin Pipe winning most of the card followed by Hobbs , obviously today 99% are all-round better jumps trainers globally thanks to lessons learnt . Simply Across the Irish Sea we have horses in every other field , quality breeding & massive quantity ( obviously many don’t make it past ptps ) competitiveness & competition in the bread & butter Irish PTP’s . Imo That gives PACE to these early races & obviously faster times ... stopwatches don’t lie owners & trainers buy by the clock $$$$ , more so than previously breeding , The earlier you run races to Speed / jumping the more you end up with Cheltenham horses . IRELAND does both IRELAND WINS .
Nicky Henderson “ Spinter Sacre’s brother is not Sprinter Sacre “ clock over breeding .
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hailceaser
New Member
Classics almost here...........Its a great game !
Posts: 15
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Post by hailceaser on Mar 22, 2021 15:01:10 GMT
So how does this dire situation get remedied because if your theory is correct there wont be any british horses winning anything and the gap can only widen............though it doesnt prevent owners buying fast horses for English yards but if all owners are just going to have horses trained by Irish trainers again where does this all end.The sooner bha address this the better I think there are countless reasons.nobody can tell me that this is normal i think there are genuine reasons for this alas Im not involved in anyway in racing and im not privvy to what the Irish horseracing authorities allow and how they differ from bha Im aware of the prizemoney situation but it still doesnt prevent a sir gerhard being trained in uk...or a monkfish or alloha ....and if they were trained in uk i still think theyd win at cheltenham but why arent those horses sent to uk
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Post by Pulse on Mar 22, 2021 15:42:24 GMT
With the likes of 🇬🇧Chev Park Stud switching to Ireland how can you bridge the gap it only widens , I know if I had 1/4 of a million to purchase a Cheltenham horse I know which route I’d be going personally.
Now one man who had a bad Cheltenham by his standards is staying loyal atm , interesting recruit unleashed in a bumper watching brief .
WELL HELLO JONBON
JP McManus's £570,000 buy a full brother to Douvan could make his rules debut at Newbury on Saturday.
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hailceaser
New Member
Classics almost here...........Its a great game !
Posts: 15
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Post by hailceaser on Mar 22, 2021 15:49:41 GMT
staying loyal to who
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Post by Pulse on Mar 22, 2021 17:47:50 GMT
mainly Henderson/ JJ O’Neill A King & P Nicholls to name but a few . Giving Nicky Henderson Jan Bon ( most expensive NH purchase ) he could have easily have kept it that side of the Irish Sea & sent it to Mr Mullins , m.facebook.com/Cheltmental/videos/774198133311118/
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hailceaser
New Member
Classics almost here...........Its a great game !
Posts: 15
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Post by hailceaser on Mar 22, 2021 18:01:45 GMT
brilliant piece of footage looks good Thankyou
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Post by Pulse on Mar 23, 2021 13:26:34 GMT
If you want to try and understand why the English are so far behind the Irish, just comprehend that Wilde About Oscar is now rated 150
That’s the rating given to Bob Olinger before he won the Ballymore...
Sky pirate is 160, he got absolutely trounced by all mankind getting 3lbs, who in turn got annihilated by shsikin on the bridle. Somehow shishkin only comes out 9lbs better then sky pirate? Madness
Twitter is full of the deferential between British & Irish handicap markings , will the BHA listen
In the 1980s , the Irish came home with one winner during Cheltenham week .
14:50 Newbury 27 Mar 2021 BetVictor Novices' Handicap Hurdle GBB Race | Class 2 | 4YO plus Winner £10,892 - 19 entered to run 0-150 handicap
14:20 Newbury 27 Mar 2021 BetVictor Conditional Jockeys' Veterans' Handicap Chase Class 2 | 10YO plus Winner £25,024 - 18 entered to run
Something seriously wrong when 10-13 year old horses are getting the lions share of the prize £££, Both sponsorship, bet victor , reason simply they make more ££ from these teenage horse handicap races through punters than the 4yearold , form , lottery
Other side of the coin .. Iv been moaning ages about the french flat prize ££ compared to English even on the aw , today I backed Archie Watson’s France 🇫🇷 AW Runner Laos 3rd btn 1-1/4 L by an exciting looking F Head Runner ADHAMO (IRE) 10/3 M Guyon Fre Head 2nd (8) Keyflower 10/1 flew home for 2nd .. our winners on the AW are lucky to get 3k for winning , Archie comes home with more £ than home winner and no Hcp difference. Well hcp horse mayb .. can’t blame them for targeting the prize money but embarrassing 🇬🇧 , PRIZE MONEY 1st: €22,051.00 2nd: €7,000.00 3rd: €3,500.00 4th: €2,451.00
Cheveley Park Stud’s managing director Chris Richardson believes prize-money is “the big problem” in British racing and revealed it was a factor in the majority of the owner’s star jumps horses being trained in Ireland.
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hailceaser
New Member
Classics almost here...........Its a great game !
Posts: 15
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Post by hailceaser on Mar 23, 2021 17:07:58 GMT
I agree but it still dont explain the demise of uk horses, prize money doesnt stop me sending a great horse to the uk just as jp is sendin jon bon to henderson where are all british horse race owners they can purchase the best out there and run in uk there has to be a whole lot more to it thats part of the growing problem but if we had more prize money here that dont make Ireland win 23 and uk 4..you mention handicaps and weights and again i get 10/13 yr olds but again im miffed if that makes irish trained horses superior
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Post by Pulse on Mar 25, 2021 2:59:52 GMT
The 23-5 beating that the Irish horses gave Britain overall at the festival shouldn't have been a shock. This has been coming for a while.
I've been saying for five or six years that I can't really compete, and that's why I've been looking more and more to the Flat.
I can't buy these Grade 1 horses and we're taking on Ferraris with Fords. When Anthony Bromley and I have been at the boutique sales, I'd say that 80 per cent of the top lots have been going to Ireland and we're seeing the results now.
Until things change dramatically with prize-money in British racing, it's going to stay this way. We need to get our house in order as we're running for such poor reward. Owners are showing they are not going to put up with it and several now have their horses trained in Ireland. Over there you're getting £10,000 for a maiden hurdle, whereas we're not getting much more than that in a Graded race.
We have far too much moderate racing, and there will come a point when the Flat goes the same way – we can't just live on heritage and history.
I went to Cheltenham on the Wednesday and the Friday and the lack of atmosphere with no crowd showed just how important it is to get racegoers back as soon as possible.
But they got the meeting on, that's the main thing, and let's hope we're back to normal next year – although I think the results will still be the same. Alan King
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hailceaser
New Member
Classics almost here...........Its a great game !
Posts: 15
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Post by hailceaser on Mar 27, 2021 18:42:12 GMT
just watched jonbon and i must say he looked fantastic for Henderson
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Post by Pindropper on Mar 28, 2021 12:16:25 GMT
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